Monday, May 26, 2008

Blue Sky Buzz (Orlando): Part Of Your "Disney" World...


You guys are so lucky...

After all the many e-mails I received asking for a Blue Sky Alert(now know as Blue Sky Buzz, btw), you not only got a full report, but two mini-updates about Anaheim and now...

you get another mini-update about Orlando.

That's right guys, finally something I can report about the Florida part of the Mouse's empire. Kinda good/kinda bad info. At least from my perspective, I'm sure you Disney Fans/Geeks in Florida might have a different perspective. Now, in truth this is sort of an update/commentary so understand that going in...

But I thought I'd fill you in to some of the inner workings of WDI and TeamDisney Burbank. Ahhhh... Suits. Ya gotta love 'em, huh? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Well, the big word is that the Magic Kingdom in Walt Disney World is finally getting a new "E-Ticket". Now this is great news since the last one they got was I believe 1992. Has it really been that long? Wow...

And if you remember that was "Splash Mountain" if I remember. Not that other parks haven't gotten more rides and more "E-Tickets", but I believe that that's the last one the MK got(I could be wrong, but I don't think so).

Now that's good right?

Well yes... and no. You see, they are getting a big, expansive, immersive ticket BUT...

It's going to be "The Little Mermaid" ride that DCA is getting. The EXACT ride. So the unique appeal of this ride will be watered down since there will now be one on the West Coast in DCA and one on the East Coast in MK. Just like "Midway Mania" which was supposed to be a DCA exclusive, TLM will now go into the back part of Fantasyland in the Magic Kingdom. It should fit there rather nicely. It should really bring in the guest, but there was something to be said for having it be a ride only experienced at the Disneyland Resort. Those WDW Suits along with the remaining spawn of Eisner's Era that still survives deep in the bowels of Burbank have decided to clone the attraction. The rational is that for the development cost to be justified it helps to have it spread out over two parks instead of one. Can someone please do me a favor and take Jay Rasulo and give him his walking papers? Please? I've written about the death of the "McPark" but as long as Jay is still around this concept will refuse to die because he keeps bringing it up in various incarnations.

While it will be nice to have a new ride at WDW, it's not like WDI is empty of ideas. The problem is the Suits in Burbank keep shooting them down. They have proposed many, many new interesting and innovative attractions. Their logic... brilliant bean counters that they are is that "People are going to come to WDW world anyway, so why should we spend money on a big, new attraction?"... I know, I know. I'm shaking my head that these kind of short sighted lame brained, dim light bulbs are still there. Sorry if I'm a little ticked. I tend to be positive but I'm human and sometimes I even get frustrated. Here's a bit of good news about these Suits: There aren't nearly as many as there was before. But there are still a few in high positions that have enough sway to get things to feel like they were under the Pressler regime.

Just so you know the logic follows that they don't want to risk a lot of money on something very big and expensive unless it's a proven thing. Like Mermaid... which I love, btw. But some of the concepts(before you ask, no I can't tell you what they are) that HAVE been proposed for WDW and DL and even Hong Kong have been amazingly cool. But the executives up in Burbank will only squeeze out the money if they're sure it'll be a hit from the get go. Now John Lasseter has been working with the teams inside Glendale to try and get some of these concepts out, but he's still not able to do everything. If "Wall-E" and the new Disney animated films do well it's going to help dim the glow from Rasulo's ego, but until that man is out of the picture we'll still be subjected to the "Disney Parks" brand which is Jay's attempt to homogenize the parks and resorts like franchises of burger joints all across America. If you go to one, you'll sure know what to expect and get.

Now wouldn't it be nice to have something unique about DCA? Something that would make you want to fly all the way across from say, Florida or some other state back east? Many Imagineers have pressed for attractions that could go into various parks to give them an appeal that would make each stand out. Imagine that... giving the guest a reason to try and go to as many Disney theme parks to experience the aspects of each that are different. Jay doesn't want that. He and the insulated bean counting Suits in his circle want you to see no difference between Anaheim or Orlando or Paris or Hong Kong.

Notice any park I left out? That's right. Tokyo. Try finding some of the rides they have there in another park. "Pooh's Hunny Hunt" is nowhere else in the world and it's an amazing attraction. "Monster's Inc." in Tokyo Disneyland? Wait until this attraction opens up next year and puts DCA's to shame... while both Pooh and Monsters here cost around 30 million, their counterparts in Tokyo cost over 100 million. And it shows... For some reason the Suits at the Oriental Land Company seem to recognize that you need unique and elaborate attractions to get people to keep coming back. The ones in Burbank seemed to have still not learned the lessons of the late 90's and DCA...

I know that some of you are asking: "What about Cars Land, will it be cloned too?". Now, nothing is written in stone, but it's very unlikely that this one will be cloned. It's not just a ride after all... it's a whole new land. It would be far harder to reproduce this in Florida than Mermaid. Not that it would be impossible, but just harder. I would hope that if the Suits were to somehow decide to spend 300 million on a new land or area in WDW that they would approve some other idea they've been presented with. Perhaps use some of that money and greenlight the proposed "Beastly Kingdom" area of DAK that has languished now for over a decade. Right now... it's anyones guess what happens with this project(although Lasseter's involvement in certain areas is encouraging).

Hopefully this didn't sound like too down a report for you. It's just me doing a little editorial venting. It is good news for WDW fans though. You guys get a big, brand new spanking attraction. You just don't get anything original that could make you stand out...

For that you have to go East. Not the East Coast of America, but the Far East...

As in Tokyo.

51 comments:

EastCoastDisneyFan said...

That sucks. I don't want a carbon copy of DCA's The Little Mermaid here at the Magic Kingdom if I can get the same exact thing out west.

It'll give me more reason to fly out to California and spend my money at Disneyland Resort if the parks were a bit more unique. If they didn't do things like unessesarily clone TSM over here, and now Mermaid, I'd actually spend more of my $$ making the trip to DLR in addition to the various trips I take to WDW every month or so.

And actually, The Little Mermaid belonged in the Magic Kingdom in the first place...not in DCA.

Give MK the mermaid, come up with an original attraction that actually has to do with California for DCA. Or maybe make our version of "Mermaid" a FNSV-style submarine ride?!

I'm still trying to figure out how The Little Mermaid has to do with the San Francisco section of DCA....?

Anonymous said...

Well, it's going to have a theme related to the Pier as in aquatic... truthfully, many piers had theming that related to mermaids along the boardwalks in the late 1800 and early 1900's so that won't be a problem. Also, it isn't themed to San Fran as all of that theming will be gone by the time Mermaid opens. If they have a San Fran section it will likey be in the remade Pacific Wharf area during the second phase.

Anonymous said...

That is so stupid that they are cloning DCA's Mermaid ride. There goes DCA's Identity. It was bad enough that they stole Toy Story Mania from us, but my god. What is wrong with them in Florida. That makes me so mad.

"Or maybe make our version of "Mermaid" a FNSV-style submarine ride?!"

Impossible, this ride cannot be built anywhere else because of the new regulations and junk like that. The only reason DL got it was because DL already had it. It can't be built from the ground up.

ronnie mashine said...

Perhaps we virtual shareholders as Honor calls us should voice our opinions to the Walt Disney Company? Or perhaps the Orange County Register? Get some attention to the matter.

Anonymous said...

And, of course, BOTH of the Mermaid versions will be the reduced omnimover version, not the "flying" version shown on the Little Mermaid DVD

Honor Hunter said...

The attraction may be an onimover, anonymous...

But it's a great E-Ticket if they build what I've seen. Unless you think the Haunted Mansion is a lousy ride you won't think TLM is either.

The Magic Kingdom is going to get a great attraction and it deserves one. I just wish it was getting an original for itself and not a clone so that Jay can brag about how he's saving cost by making every park the same. It makes the park soulless, but that would make sense since it's coming from a soulless individual such as Rasulo. I await the day he leaves or is fired. I don't know if/when it will happen, but the company and parks will truly be much better off. Hopefully, someone is listening...

CheriBibi said...

What stands out though, is that if Mermaid didn't have to be "doubled" in order to dispatch the costs, then MK wouldn't have had a new ride at all.
Though I understand your point, one can only rejoice 20,000 leagues patch land is finaly gonna be filled and themed.
WDW guests will be happy. no doubt about that.

Anonymous said...

I love it when Disneylanders get all upset when their park can't lay claim to having an exclusive ride. LOL

It simply makes financial sense for Disney to clone rides.

Those who sit behind computers love to slam Disney for being 'bean counters', but it's easy to say when it's not our $50 million -- or whatever it costs to build a ride like this. If they make two of everything in the process, it's cheaper than making two completely different rides.

And when you factor in the fact that most people only go to one Disney resort almost exclusively, why would they bother to try to make a handful of people who go to multiple Disney resorts happy?

Honestly, I'd love it if there weren't clones, but I don't live in Fantasyland. From a logical and financial standpoint, this makes sense.

Anonymous said...

Disneyland's Winnie the Pooh was reported to have the around the same budget as WDW's ( around 30 million ) but really only cost about 14 million.

This era of cloning attractions needs to come to an end. What is attracting people from the west coast to go to Disneyworld and vice versa?

This must stop... right after DL gets a mission space in tomorrowland...

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said-
"I love it when Disneylanders get all upset when their park can't lay claim to having an exclusive ride. LOL "

Matterhorn....


and this discussion isn't about disneyland having exclusive rides it is about the disney suits restricting the creativity of the talented men and women down at WDI and limiting the spectrum of new offerings in their US parks.

The idea that this is good business is ridiculous.

If this is how it is going to be , they can stop calling them attractions and just call them rides.

zeus mccallister said...

Ok anonymous,

You think it's ridiculous that Disneylanders want something exclusive to their park, what you're missing is that's not what Honor is saying. He's saying each park should have somethin unique to offer. If you had eleven children would you want them all to look, act and sound alike? I believe you'd want them to each have their own personality and that is what he's saying. There is no reason to go to California if I can get it in Florida. I believe that WDW should have exclusive things for it as well so don't play this as Disneylanders or whatever you want to call it. While we're at it, I'm hoping the Pirates that has been talked about for HKDL get built because it's going to be different and make people want to go see it.

Get it? Otherwise go to McDonalds and have the same ole' fries with the same ole' burger, cause that's what Disney Parks will turn into unless Rasulo gets fired.

Honor Hunter said...

CheriBibi,

You're presuming that it's going where "Leagues" was...

I didn't say that. I said it's going to Fantasyland which doesn't mean it will wind up there.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, they're cloning everything at both coasts these days... Radiator Springs Racers, Expedition Everest, Indiana Jones, Nemo Subs, Mission Space, Test Track, Rock'n'Roller Coaster... oh wait, not they're not.

There's less cloning going on NOW than there was when WDW was first built. I don't get the hate.

To all those who claim you'd visit the other coast if it was more unique - would you visit in ON TOP OF your usual visits to your "home park", or would you visit it one time instead of a visit to your "home park." There's a big difference.

To me, there will always be enough of an architectural difference (DCA, DHS, AK, and Epcot are vastly different) and in terms of E-tickets (see the rides mentioned above) that if you really were going to visit the other coast, you would have done so already becuase there's already reason enough to do so. Having the Little Mermaid at DCA only was NOT going to be enough to put it over the top for you, it's ok to admit the truth to yourself. However, big E-tickets like Indiana Jones, Radiator Springs, etc are the non-twin rides that should be more than reason enough to visit California. If it's not, I don't think it would matter how many attractions were different, you wouldn't be heading over there.

Moonliner said...

Honor-

I did not see in your post or in the comments any mention of a possible budget increase for development of this attraction since bothe parks will utilize the design. If this happens, and results in a more richly themed attraction, than both parks come out ahead. If you know how the budget may be affected it would be interesting to know. Thanks.

I was weened on Disneyland but now live close to and work part time at WDW. I treat the parks like my children - I love them all, no favorites, though I may spend more time with one or the other. I go to DL, not because of all the unique rides there, but because it is where Walt walked, and is intimate, and has the history. WDW, in Walt's words, has 'the blessing of size' and can sprawl. But they are both Walt's children and, while unique to themselves, will still look like their daddy, as they continue to grow.

I don't disagree with having unique attractions at each park, but I don't see think it is a big issue to have identical rides at the parks.

Anonymous said...

there have been worse ideas, come on people. magic kingdom needs a new attraction. the little mermaid is a great idea... i even hope they put it in hong kong disneyland. i believe it is okay to have the same attraction appearing at other parks, but no more than 3 parks maximum. this SOARIN' OVER CALIFORNIA in Epcot was a bad idea. the concept is amazing, but they could have plugged SOARIN' OVER THE WORLD for that park, making it unique. i am all for taking the same idea and making it original per park. i love the idea of having different haunted mansions at each park (although the magic kingdom versions are pretty much identical...). jay rasulo sounds like he loves gingerbread men- cookie cutters are his thing. the positive side is that we have john lasseter on board. i know he is pushing for the best and isn't one to settle for just anything. that alone allows me accept these clones, albeit amazing ideas, in various parks.

Corruption said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Corruption said...

This is still very much in flux, Honor.

If it's not built and open, it's rumor. It's fun to speculate and I know that you have your sources, but stop making it sound like these kinds of projects are absolutely going to happen, please?

Jay said...

Harsh.

ATL Disneyfan said...

Whoo hoo! Unique for the MK currently means M.I.L.F., Stitch's Great Escape and Tiki Room Under New Management. I'll take a quality copy any day!

Fans dislike when "just OK" attractions get copied, like the many 4D clones, but I don't recall many Westcoast Disneyfan complaints about getting Buzz or ToT (other than the DCA ToT not being as good as the WDW ToT).

Also, I think that outside of California, U.S. Disney fans are perceived as Eastcoast or Westcoast (as opposed to "Florida Disney Fans"). Anyone else think this way?

kevinwillis.net said...

I may not be a purists, but I have nothing against cloning rides. In fact, I kind of like it. I admit, the first rides I went to hit in Disneyland (where I rarely go) were the ones that they don't have in Orlando, but that I wasn't in California because Disneyland had those rides.

Man, did I love Temple of the Forbidden Eye. Also was a big fan of Alice in Wonderland (is that still there?), and the Matterhorn. Also, differences in the rides are fun--Space Mountain, Pirates of the Carribean. Still, I'm not flying from Tennessee to California just to go to Disneyland (of course, I love Florida, anyway, so I may be atypical), but will go to Anaheim if I'm going to be in California. But when will that happen again? 5 years? 10 years? I'm certain to get down to Florida in the next five years, so I'm glad they'll be cloning the Little Mermaid. I hope it's open when I get there!

Although I am for original attractions, I don't think cloning rides is a negative. I'd still hit Disneyland and DCA if I was in California, and if it's a true E-ticket I'd ride that ride in Calfornia and Florida.

Frankly, if I had the money and time, I'd hit every Disney park in the world--even if the number of unique attractions was minimal. I think the real lesson to be learned here is that Disneyland and the Magic Kingdom need to be cloning the Tokyo park's rides! 100 million per E-ticket? Now, that sounds like an attraction!

Disneytom said...

AAAAHHH!!!

:''(

WHY? WHY? WHY?

DCA doesn't get a single exclusive thing and WDW only get's "left over" idea's, what's the use for me to go to DCA then? Don't they get it???
I'm one disappointed European Disney "fan"...

socalkdg said...

With travel expenses going up you will continue to see less and less people go from one coast to the other to vacation.

Having the same top attraction at both parks makes financial sense for Disney as well as vacation sense for tourists.

CheriBibi said...

Honor

Yeah sorry, I made this deduction myself. Even though I really don't see where else it could go...

Anonymous said...

Honor Hunter is being bitter. Does he honestly think Disney was ever interested in making each park unique? Give me a break! If Disney really wanted each park to be truly unique, there would only be one Main Street USA, Fantasyland, and Tomorrowland in the world. The fact is that when they made Walt Disney World, the unique factor went away. People demanded cloned rides. Rides that were not cloned were asked to be cloned.

Magic Kingdom is the most visited park of all of Disney's properties (and the world). E-ticket attractions are generally created to help push more traffic, thus, Magic Kingdom hasn't had a new attraction in more than a decade because it wasn't needed.

Also, stop being a whiny fan boy. This anti-suits spiel is totally off the mark. Its obvious your source is a low hanging fruit because anyone that actually manages the money in attraction research and development would tell you that millions can be spent without anything being built.

Its incredible that you think Disneyland has the same funding to put forward as the Oriental Land Company. Seriously, you need to stop dissing the suits and starting looking at the numbers they have. Being a "suit" is speaking about the methods for decision-making, not the goal.

Do you really think Disneyland, with its slumping attendance, could even compete on the same level? TEA/ERA scored California Adventure with a 4.5% visitor drop in 2007. Disneyland proper only had a 1% increase. Either way, they're still in the red. Pooling Orlando's R&D dollars into this development is one of the saving graces of this mess.

Since you brought up Tokyo Disneyland, let's talk NUMBERS (don't be scared). The Tokyo park had a 0.3% income increase in Q1 2008. Why? Because they cut costs. [Read: Layoffs].

I think you're too quick to discredit a LARGE part of the Disney team. You want to slice off the un-fun side of a company and pull from the magic cloud of money to grant all artistic license. This isn't Neverland! Time to grow up.

Spokker said...

"Magic Kingdom hasn't had a new attraction in more than a decade because it wasn't needed."

Was Disneyland not the most visited theme park in 1966? Did that stop Walt from heavily investing in the park up until his death? It's funny that for a company that touts the legacy of its founder so often they don't seem to really give a damn what he had to say.

And hereeeeeee come the quotes!

"Well, by this time, my staff, my young group of executives are convinced that Walt is right, that quality will win out, and so I think they will stay with this policy because it's proven it's a good business policy. Give the public everything you can give them, keep the place as clean as you can keep it, keep it friendly - I think they're convinced and I think they'll hang on after - as you say, "after Disney.""

and

"If any of you starts to rest on your laurels, forget it."

You talk about cloning MK, but was it such a clone? Certainly it made much more sense on paper to build Sleeping Beauty Castle instead of the extravagant Cinderella Castle. Certainly it made more sense to use the same facade from the Haunted Mansion. Wouldn't it have been cheaper to build Tomorrowland as it was at Disneyland, and not build a unique one in design and layout?

You also conveniently forget that Walt was also garnering support for his Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow, which would not only be a tourist destination in and of itself, but a living breathing city.

I guess these guys weren't as business savvy as the geniuses that run Disney today. Here I was thinking that the Disney experience was all about artistic license.

But poor Disney never has enough money. They are in the red, as you say. Maybe we should start a bake sale and help them out a bit.

"Since you brought up Tokyo Disneyland, let's talk NUMBERS (don't be scared). The Tokyo park had a 0.3% income increase in Q1 2008. Why? Because they cut costs. [Read: Layoffs]."

I don't doubt you, but where is this information? I am reading the OLC's financial statements and searching on Google and cannot find anything about layoffs.

The most recent financial statement shows a decline in income due to a decline in attendance.

Anonymous said...

"And if you remember that was 'Splash Mountain' if I remember."

I honestly don't remember if I remember if you remember...

Anonymous said...

Sometimes I don't get it. WDW has plenty of original attractions and vice-versa for Disneyland. My family doesn't go out to the West Coast, haven't been in a decade, so for us to get The Little Mermaid attraction down in Orlando is terrific. Fanboys need to remember that many of us do not go to both places. It'll be great to have a wonderful E-Ticket in Fantasyland at the MK.

Spokker said...

"Fanboys need to remember that many of us do not go to both places."

I've only been to Disneyland and Tokyo Disney. I've never been to WDW and I still think it's a bad idea to clone attractions. I wouldn't want to see Everest built in Anaheim any more than I want to see The Little Mermaid ride built in the Magic Kingdom.

And it's very hard to say, but I wouldn't want to see TDS built in the US unless it was significantly altered (and not in the cost cutting way).

Honor Hunter said...

Corruption said:

"This is still very much in flux, Honor.

If it's not built and open, it's rumor. It's fun to speculate and I know that you have your sources, but stop making it sound like these kinds of projects are absolutely going to happen, please?"

Actually Corruption,

I'd love for it to be in flux... I'd love for them to change their minds, but it would take a miracle for that to happen right now. This is as of now considered a "Co-production between DCA and MK... that's what it's being referred to inside WDI. It's not in flux, it's happening.

If things change I'll be estatic, but I doubt that's going to happen short of Rasulo exiting the company soon.

Sorry.

Anonymous said...

Hi, Can anyone tell me if the Little Merrmaid ride in California Adventure will be less good because of this? That's my big concern.

Greg Maletic said...

Didn't Disney himself completely clone Disneyland Park when he designed Disney World?

Of course it would be nice for every park in the world to be unique, but I just can't get worked up about this. As far as the problems that ail Disney theme parks, this is about 7,392nd on the list of issues.

Spokker said...

Walt Disney on Walt Disney World:

"I've always said that there will never be another Disneyland, and I think it's going to work out that way. But it will be the equivalent of Disneyland. We know the basic things that have family appeal. There are many ways that you can use those certain basic things and give them a new decor, a new treatment. This concept here will have to be something that is unique, so there is a distinction between Disneyland in California and whatever Disney does in Florida."

"I'm doing this because I want to do it better."

Yeah, yeah, it's decades later and these words are no longer relevant anymore, blah blah blah.

Spokker said...

Also, despite the fact that Disney World has "the blessing of size" what is the Little Mermaid ride going to replace? I mean, Pooh could have easily been built near Splash Mountain, but they chose to close Toad instead.

Because we all know that since the Magic Kingdom is the most visited theme park in the world they are really hard up for money and MUST close an existing attraction to open a new one.

Manetoys said...

I don't see the big problem here. Many of us who go to Disney World can't GET to Disneyland.

fineaus Foundswalure said...

Why? Are the flights all cancelled?

quack mcbush said...

No, they can't read the directions on how to get there.

Sheesh.

I've never been to Tokyo, but I'm glad that there is something there to look forward to when I save up the money to go. If it was the same experience as a ride I have here I wouldn't attempt to go.

The Monsters ride at DCA is a nice C ticket, but I can't wait to see the E ticket that opens next year. It would be nice though to have a ride BETTER and DIFFERENT than the ones in Tokyo for a change. It's frustrating to see them get one with all the bells and whistles and we get one with just a bell. I was looking forward to TLM being a DCA exclusive. It would give the Japanese a bigger incentive to come here. To experience the difference. But now they can choose California or Florida cause it's the same damn ride.

I can't stand Jay Rasulo. He and the dip sticks around him should go off and form their own theme park: Genericland. The greatest place for mediocrity. He'll fit right in... in fact, he'll be the king of it.

socalkdg said...

""Give the public everything you can give them.""

The public wants Mermaid at both the DLR and WDW. The general public only chooses one park or the other. Those fortunate enough to go to both parks are the minority.


""You talk about cloning MK, but was it such a clone? Certainly it made much more sense on paper to build Sleeping Beauty Castle instead of the extravagant Cinderella Castle. Certainly it made more sense to use the same facade from the Haunted Mansion.""

Like Mansion and TSM Mermaid at WDW could have a different facade, location, que.

Corruption said...

A couple of things:

1. Honor, I'm standing my ground on this. Your sources are overestimating the likelihood of this at this point. We'll have to agree to disagree. Just because someone in WDI says something doesn't mean the bean counters have given it the greenlight. Cases in point -- Westcot, Disney's America, Beastly Kingdom, Western River Expedition, Israel and Spain pavillions, etc. There are tons of instances of things not getting built that were announced, much less not even past the planning stages.

2. Right on Spokker.

3. @ anonymous saying that Honor is bitter -- I don't always see eye to eye with Honor, and I see your point about villifying the non-creative folks, but he has a point in this case, even though I suspect most guest will be happy to have two of the same attraction.

kevinwillis.net said...

While I'm not a big fan of vitriol (Honor Hunter is "bitter"? Come on.) . . . I still think cloning attractions is a pretty good idea, especially with there is a significant geographical distance between the parks. I think doing unique things is a good idea, too, but cloning major attractions--especially someting like The Little Mermaid--sounds as if the suits want to make it possible for the most people possible to experience it.

The fact is, not everybody can get to both parks. Not everybody will, even if they reasonably could. While theme parks are different from other forms of entertainment, should a movie just play at one theater per town? Per state? I dunno, but it seems like Disney is making it possible for more people to experience an exceptional (I hope) E-ticket ride. If that's the case, I'm all for cloning.

Unique rides are fun, just as are cloned rides with signficant differences between experiences. But even if the great majority of rides were the same between parks, it would not make it less likely for me to go to that park--and go on all the same rides. "Hey, isn't this on the right side and WDW? Hey, is this part different? I don't remember that at Disneyland."

Much more important that Disney maintain their rides, fix broken bits, patch cracks, and dust! Last time I was at WDW (this was 2002, I think) I thought both Small World and Splash Mountain had lots of bits showing wear, and lots of bits that just needed some dusting, fresh coat of paint, etc. And a couple of the figures on Small World appeared to be non-functional . . . getting on that stuff is a much bigger issue than whether or not to clone or not to clone.

That and firing up some more monorails. Man, I love me some monorail action.

Daniel said...

Very interesting post and comments. Here's my .5 cents.

First, I appreciate the tidbits that Honor sends over the intertubes. I think we all know pretty well that these things are rumors without Honor having to say it every time. The key is that these are rumors based on some real-world facts. Spokker is right that we should anticipate change--because it very well might happen. Dick Tracy's Crimestoppers was set to happen--then the movie bombed. Who knows what could happen here. But, even so, I think Honor is fine using the language he uses. As of conditions TODAY, Little Mermaid is set to invade the Magic Kingdom.

Second, as to the concerns over cloning, I think cloning makes a lot of sense--WHEN done right! I used to live in the South and as much as I wanted to experience Disneyland, it just didn't make financial sense to fly across the country--especially when flying eats up an entire day. Now I'm in the opposite situation here in California. I appreciate when a really good experience is shared at both locations.

BUT, this works best when there are *some* differences. I've never been to Disneyland Paris--but I plan to go in the next few years. I'm curious to see how their versions of Space Mountain and Haunted Mansion differ. To me it's ideal when the cloned rides share the same basic experience, but actually differ in some show scenes and experiences. Space Mountain and Big Thunder actually differ at each park--whereas it looks like on the inside Toy Story Mania is going to be exactly the same. I have no reason to go to both versions.

The shame here would be if, as Honor indicated, the rides are EXACTLY the same. The even bigger shame would be if they waste that valuable 20,000 Leagues lot with a glorified dark ride--but it sounds like it will be more than that and that it may use a different piece of land anyway!

BrerDan

Corruption said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Spokker said...

"The public wants Mermaid at both the DLR and WDW. The general public only chooses one park or the other. Those fortunate enough to go to both parks are the minority."

People travel. And these are the big spenders. They are the ones who spend 3-5 grand on a Disney vacation. They aren't going to do it when every park is homogenized.

There are an increasing number of foreigners traveling to Tokyo Disney and I'm sure the OLC welcomes these tourists who spend thousands of dollars at their resort. Sure, Japanese locals will always outnumber foreigners at TDR, but then again, Disneyland relies on locals with cheap APs, and Disneyland is becoming less of a world-class destination.

When you build cheap overlays and makeover classic attractions, all you're attracting is the local APs who don't spend much. But when you build high budget attractions that tell a story, you attract guests from halfway across the world who have always dreamed of going to Disneyland, and they spend, spend spend.

Corruption said...

@ BrerDan:

The reality today is that Honor's sources are saying it's going to be built, not that the powers that be are saying it will be built.

I take issue with someone making statements that make it sound like fact. Unless Honor has a direct pipeline to Bob Iger, Jay Rasulo, Al Weiss, or Meg Crofton, I'd take what he has to say with a grain of salt, especially if it hasn't been announced yet.

In addition, he could be getting some misinformation in order to weed people out. Remember, Apple is notorious for those kinds of things, and let's not forget who is now on the Disney Board of Directors...

Daniel said...

I understand what you're saying man, and don't disagree with you. I guess for me it's just splitting hairs as to whether you actually write the word "rumor" or "sources" in every post when there have been so many posts where he talks about the Bothans and such.

I'm not disagreeing with your overall point. It's not happening until it's actually being built! I just assume people are reasonable enough to realize that. I mean, I take EVERYTHING I read on the web with a grain of salt. You're probably right that many out there don't do the same.

BrerDan

Anonymous said...

it is all fun speculation, whether we are getting our hopes up or not.

honor, i have a special request... can you start doing more indepth blogs about attractions that never made it to the construction phase? i'd like to know more about things like THE YOUNG INDIANA JONES EPIC STUNT SPECTACULAR at disneyland, as well as some of the things planned for dca, like CIRCLE OF HANDS. see what you can dig up...

thanks.

atl disneyfan said...

Spokker - There are thousands of big spenders, "who spend 3-5 grand on a Disney vacation", every day at WDW.

Basicly any family who stays a week at a non-value resort. Many, many eastcoast families go to WDW every few years for a week. I bet less than 5% would even think of making a vacation of Disneyland. Disneyland is still a regional park and WDW is a national resort.

BTW - I'm not knocking Disneyland, just pointing out the vastly different markets.

Fan, notafanboy said...

I agree with you about the accountaneers. Creativity needs to reign, especially with more competition world-wide and in this country with other theme park companies.
Is TLM really "E" ticket level? From what has come out, so far, it doesn't seem like it, but you have alluded to it being that. I hope it will be.
Each park should have its own distinct attractions, as well as some that are the same - nothing wrong with that, except when it comes from a lack of creativity.
Half of CarsLand has already been built in France, so even some of that originality has already been taken from DCA.

Thanx for the updated Blue Sky Lightyear

Anonymous said...

corruption,

I know for a fact that Honor is correct on this one. The project right now is destined for both DCA and the MK

Anonymous said...

Cloning is not bad but it should be done with some consideration. Specific attractions should always remain specific to certain parks.

Making an exact ride thru clone of the mermaid attraction for WDW is not the way to go even if the facade is diferent.

Honor Hunter said...

Fan, notafanboy said: "Half of CarsLand has already been built in France, so even some of that originality has already been taken from DCA."

Actually Fan,

To compare what Paris has to what DCA is getting is like comparing Tokyo's Pooh ride with our own in California...

They're dramatically different. The area in WDS in Paris is a nice area for the kids, but when you walk into Cars Land it will overwhelm you. It's going to be that cool.

Four years from now, unless everything goes plot! from the economy you'll have a chance to see it for yourself.

Cynthia Leigh said...

Is TLM an "E-ticket" for me?

Hell ya'! When it was originally announced as being in production in "Eyes n' Ears" for DCA several months ago. I told my family I was going to have to go back to Cali for the first time in over 15 yrs.

TLM is a huge piece of my childhood. My Dad was a mid-level mgr at DLH in the 90s when TLM first came out. I remember being 6-7 yrs old and going to a WDI open house and seeing the concept art for the ride after the movie came out.

I'm estatic to hear now as a former MK BBB Fall 07 CP that Fantasyland is going to get TLM. Though I myself am wondering where it's going to go if it isn't going to fill in the left over space from "Leagues"--they suck for removing it. I know what's "behind" IASM, Grotto, etc. And Toon Town is getting Pixie Hollow--actually, it should have it already. So, other than filling in Pooh's Playground. (Isn't that "League's" as well?) I don't know where this attraction would go, but I'm really happy that it's coming!